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Thursday, May 15, 2014
Blog 2 - A Separate Expectation of Two Lords - Book II, Chapters 6-11
Dicken’s diction (hey, Rachel… alliteration!) within A Tale of Two Cities brings the novel to life in a phenomenal way. One of the things which sets his writing apart from other authors is the unique way in which he choses fantastic, imaginative words to describe everyday things, which brings novel vivacity to his scenes.
In Chapter 8 – Monseigneur in the Country – on page 117 of my copy of text, the Barnes & Nobles Classics edition, Dickens describes the Marquis’ carraige taking off. He writes, “Gradually, it subsided to a foot pace, swinging and lumbering upward among the many sweet scents of a summer night. The postilions, with a thousand gossamer gnats circling about them in lieu of the Furies, quietly mended the points to the lashes of their whips.” Gossamer is an adjective meaning sheer, very light, like cobwebs. The use of gossamer to describe the gnats evokes a better sense of their prevalence and density in the area, and this coupled with the comparison of the gnats to Furies, female deities of vengeance from Greek mythos that would stalk a person until they received proper punishment for an ill doing, brings further superiority to his style.
In Chapter 7 – Monseigneur in Town &ndash on page 107 of my text, Dickens wrote, “It was impossible for Monseigneur to dispense with one of these attendants on the chocolate and hold his high place under the admiring Havens. Deep would have been the blot upon his escutcheon if his chocolate had been ignobly waited on by only three men.” An escutcheon is a family’s coat of arms, and the full idiom “a blot upon his escutcheon” would be something that damages an individual’s and a family’s post in society. Personally, I love the use of these terms that suggest nobility and add some sass all at once.
What do you think? Thanks for reading, and blog on!
As the literary luminary, I was able to look deeper in the text and find some paragraphs that I thought had significance to the novel and the possible future in the novel. Please keep in mind that when I reference a page and paragraph, it is in the library copy.
The first passage that I found was on page 98 paragraph 7. My reason for choosing this passage was I saw the concept of duality. Duality was present when they described the dark and stormy night then mentioned the white curtains being blown around by the winds. The white against the dark shows how the dark seemed to be able to influence the white so significantly. Also in this scene Darnay is sitting beside Lucie which shows duality. The reason I saw this as duality is that Darnay is supposed to be this corrupt figure who has a bad past and yet he is sitting beside this innocent lady who is fragile. However, I find it absolutely adorable that Darnay likes Lucie. You know what they say, opposites attract!
The other passage that I chose was on page 108 paragraph 1. This passage took place after Defarge had been given coins to do work for the Marquis. Then someone had thrown coins into his carriage and he never figured out who did it. I believe it to be Defarge since he had been given coins, so he would have a coin to throw. The fact that we don’t know if it was him makes it more mysterious. Also, it says that where Monsieur had stood previously a stout woman knitting was standing there. Could this possibly be Madame Defarge? The first time we saw her in the novel she was described as a stout woman who knit. She was also a mysterious figure like her husband. If this was her, this just makes the couple even more mysterious. This whole scene seemed sketchy to me.
First off, I would like to talk about how awesome Miss Pross is. This woman works it. She honestly reminds me of a typical mother. She’s super critical of other people but it’s in a comical way that you don’t take seriously but at the same time you’re scared to laugh or even think it is funny, which Mr. Lorry definitely portrays through his responses to her. The fact she’s described as “the wild red woman” shows she has the fiery personality that’s represented by her red hair. Yet she is also described as “strong of hand” which links to the motherly personality. And she definitely suits the role as Lucie’s figurative mother. She calls Lucie ‘Ladybird’ (I looked that up and it means ladybug, so I don’t know if there is any symbolic meaning behind that or not, if you can think of something, share it). So she not only gives her a pet name, but also acts extremely protective over her: “But it really is doubly and trebly hard to have crowds and multitudes of people turning up…to take Ladybird’s affections away from me.” She gets very jealous and doubtful of others who seek out Lucie, which definitely shows her motherly characteristics. I love her. Side note: I like how she is introduced almost as if you should know who she is already. It straight up just reads: “It proceeded from Miss Pross” like you have already seen her in the text earlier and know her as a character. I don’t know, I thought that was pretty interesting.
Okay now moving on to Lucie. We see Lucie as a pretty stable character. She has no changes within herself so far in this text and I have a feeling she won’t change, depending on Dickens’ themes for the novel to come. My concept is that Lucie is meant to symbolize hope. Now I have several text references to back this up and I would really like to hear what other people think about this. In Chapter 6, pg 95 of the Barnes & Noble version of the text, Mr. Lorry is entering the Manette’s home and he describes it as very simple, yet because of Lucie’s decorations, it comes off as very pleasant and delightful. And I think the quote, “She appeared to have innately derived from it that ability to make much of little means” really drives her representation of hope. This is a time of distress and heartache for most, yet Lucie is still bubbly and this wonderful girl we find some sort of comfort in…kind of like hope…am I right? I mean, even if we are hopeless, we still hold on to hope. If that makes sense. The example in the text of Lucie acting as hope is with her very own father. Page 100 discusses how Doc Manette sleepwalks (like Lady Macbeth…we’ll discuss that later) and the only one to bring him out of these trances is Lucie: “In silence they go walking up and down together…till her love and company have brought him to himself.” And in connection, she was the only thing that “recalled him to life”. Hope does the same thing for humans. It gives them reason and purpose and joy even when things aren’t so joyful. Another side note: This would explain why everyone wants her “affections”. Everyone wants hope in their lives. Everyone seeks out for hope and love and comfort.
Just want to point out, page 101, “Mr. Darnay presented himself while they were sitting under the plane-tree, but he was only One.” Miss Pross is talking about how thousands and thousands of people show up for Lucie but only Mr. Darnay actually comes and the fact that he is referred to as “One”….umm…more like…”The One”. Just saying. I totally “Awh-ed” when I came to that.
My firm belief is there is usually an ‘audience character’ in a book. What I mean by that, is there is usually a character who is more like a wallflower in the whole plot, just like the reader who is absorbing everything that is going on. I believe Mr. Lorry is this character. For several reasons but mainly what it says on page 103 it reads: “He recovered himself so quickly, however, that Mr. Lorry had doubts of his business eyes.” The fact that only Mr. Lorry is said to feel this way and no one else is mentioned, foreshadows something in the text I think. This is definitely more meant for the reader to go “Huh…Mr. Lorry is right. What’s up with that?” which I think can signify Mr. Lorry’s importance to the audience of this book. I don’t know, this is just a theory going on in my mind.
Interesting thing about Doc Manette. At certain times of the text throughout Chapters 6-11, he is seen as getting a lot better and happier as a character, yet there are several accounts of him showing bad signs still. Like the sleepwalking. There’s a huge mystery behind that. Now one can just argue it’s his past that’s keeping him up, almost like Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. But if we connect the whole sleepwalking to Lady Macbeth, I think that opens up a whole different thing. What if there is something Doc did that is more serious than we think? Sleepwalking was associated with guilt in terms of Lady Macbeth, which makes a lot of sense. Sleep is a time of peace and rest and usually when one can’t fall asleep or when sleep is disturbed it is because of bad thoughts or guilt. So…what’s up Doc? Side note: That was extremely cheesy. I apologize.
Okay. I gotta talk about this jerk. I don’t want to. But I have to cause I’m Character Captain and he is a new character even though he is a butthole. Monsieur the Marquis. The loveliest man alive. So basically Monsieur the Marquis isn’t really a character. I mean, he is, but he isn’t. His whole purpose in this text is to represent the snobby upper class at this time who literally did not care about anyone else but themselves. The fact that for a decent amount of pages he wasn’t even given an actual name, he was just called “Monseigneur” shows he isn’t really significant as a character besides his personality. Side note: I don’t need to quote any passages to support the fact that he is a jerk. If you read, you already know.
Q: Why do you think Dickens uses so much imagery (ex. when he describes setting) to describe the times and people in those times? A: Dickens tends to use setting and weather to describe the times to most likely set the mood that the people living in this time are feeling. For example, when it is cloudy, dark, raining, etc., people tend to be going through tough times. When it is sunny and bright outside, something good is either happening or about to happen.
Q: Why do you think people of this time chose to “put on a new personality” or chose to live vicariously through others? (ex. Miss Pross) A. Readers can infer that people tend to put on a “mask” or clothing that portrays a character not like their true self so that they don’t have to show the person who is really behind the “mask” or the outfit. They can also assume that the character may have something to hide if they are in disguise. As for “living vicariously through others” or maybe acting as a guide, people might just be looking out for other people that they care about. An example of this would be Miss Pross taking care of Lucie Manette.
Q: Since Miss Pross is compared to Cinderella’s Godmother, how do you think this foreshadows her future? A: Seeing as she’s been taking care of Lucie Manette for most of her life, Miss Pross maybe be able to help her through some tough situations in the future. I think she may be there for something possibly involving Charles Darnay.
Q: What do you think the significance of the echo in the corner is? (pg 99) A: The echoes could represent multiple things. However, I think the echoes could represent past actions that seem to stick with the characters. Echoes never really tend to just go away but they only fade.
Q: Why do you think people (like Monseigneur) with authority chose not to help drastically change the times? A: I think Monseigneur will be one of the characters that we see in the novel that will show more of the corrupt side of society than anything else. Because he doesn’t have consideration for anyone else but himself, I think he chooses not to help people because it doesn’t affect him.
Q: Do you think the way people dressed was a sign of a judgmental society? If so, why do you think everyone was so judgmental in this time? A: In my opinion, I do happen to think that society during this time period was very judgmental and that was mostly done probably by the upper classes. I think that because the upper class was judgmental about everything from clothes to money, people chose to hide who they really were. This problem also contributes to the reason why people dressed different than who they really were.
Q: What could be another meaning behind, “It is better for the poor little plaything to die so, than to live?” A: When Monseigneur said this, I thought it had a meaning behind it that, in a way, could’ve represented the time period. Because these times were really tough for mostly everybody in France, everyone always felt down. Monseigneur, in the most arrogant way possible, probably meant that it is better for the boy to be in peace than to live with struggle.
Q: What does the death of the innocent boy show about Monseigneur? A: in my opinion, I think he is very rude and self-centered. The fact that he killed an innocent child shows that he has no consideration and care for others. This may come back to him if he keeps doing ridiculous acts like this.
Q: What is the significance of dirty bodies in the novel so far? A: Once again, I think the dirty bodies and clothes have the significance of the effects of a corrupt society on the lower class, especially during this time period. The dirt on their bodies would represent the struggle that they have to go through to make it by in society.
Q: Why do you think the quote, “…so many die of want; so many more will die of want,” is so important in the novel? A: This quote is definitely the right quote to describe the mindset of people during this age, and even now. In the novel, it shows two things: The wants being the needs of the lower class, and the greedy wants of the upper class. The lower class will die of wanting change and reform, and the upper class will die of greedy wants for luxuries. Q: Do you think Mr. Darnay is being realistic for trying to prosper in his social class, or does thinking he can prosper make him unrealistic? A: I think him wanting to prosper and him actually prospering are two separate concepts. The fact that he thinks he can prosper in the lower class may be unrealistic only people nobody in society, except for the upper class, is prospering at that time. However, if he actually is prospering for a man in the lower class, than it is realistic of him for thinking reform may come.
Q: Do you think Dr. Manette gave Charles Darnay permission to be with Lucie because he sees a little of himself in Charles, or because he wants Lucie to be happy? A: I think Dr. Manette gave Mr. Darnay permission to be with Lucie for both reasons. When Charles mentions Dr. Manette’s past loves as a reference for his case to him, he immediately feels emotional. However, when Charles mentions his potential love for Lucie, Dr. Manette decides that he approves because Lucie may love him too.
Q: How do you think Mr. Carton’s drinking problem will cause issues in the future? A: I think Mr. Carton’s drinking problem could cause multiple issues in the future. It may make him spill information he was supposed to keep a secret, or maybe he will admit his love for Lucie in front of Charles when is too drunk to realize.
Q: Do you really think Mr. Stryver has a right to confront Mr. Carton about his liking for Lucie? A: In my opinion, I don’t think Mr. Stryver had any right to confront Mr. Carton about his possible love for Lucie. If you think about it, what does his “crush” have anything to do with Mr. Stryver? It’s a little suspicious how much he wants him to marry.
Q: What other reasons could explain why Mr. Stryver wants Mr. Carton to marry so badly, other than the reasons that he explained? A: I thought about a few different explanations to this problem. One of them could be that maybe he wants to set him up with someone that fits into a plan he may have in the future. Also, maybe he wants to see Lucie and Mr. Darnay apart for some reason.
OMG Kess, let me just start off by telling you that I always LOVE what you have to say about the novel! Anyway, I liked the thoughts you expressed about Lucie. How she represents hope is very prevalent in A Tale of Two Cities. In every detail we get about Lucie she encompasses compassion, love, and goodness. But I am curious as to if maybe Dickens purposely made us feel this way about Lucie. I want to love her as a character but I can’t help but wonder if Lucie is portraying a false fascase. Who knows! It’s just something to think about. Oh! I also wanted to tell you that I loved the passage you pointed out on page 101 when Mr. Darnay appears and Lucie thinks of him as “the one.” (I awh-ed” at that part too). It made me think of Gone With the Wind. Scarlett, this beautiful southern belle is in love with a man named Ashley and although she has tons of men fawning over her all she wants is Ashley. Anyhow, I made a connection to that. Lastly, I just wanted to let you know that I agree with you on the whole Monseigneur being a jerk thing. He’s an idiot. If you read my connections that I posted I connected him to the prince in Beauty and the Beast (before he falls in love with Belle). Maybe Monseigneur isn’t as bad as he’s portrayed… or maybe he’s just a jerk! But anyway, really good job with your character analysis.
AHH Kess I loved reading your thoughts on the novel and the cheesy joke! I thought it was interesting how you said you always find an 'audience character'. I'm going to look for those when I read now! I was the character captain this week and I analyzed Monseigneur the Marquis too. He is BEYOND annoying! I completely agree that he is a snobby upper class jerk with no significance to the novel except for his personality. He bothered me so much...
Kess- I agree with what you said about Doctor Manette, with regards to doing something more serious. I think he was imprisoned because he was towards the upper class, but not quite there yet. We know he was a partner of Mr. Lorry's,and that would definitely suggest some sort of richness. Possibly when he was being captured, he could have killed one of his captors and is still living with that. We may never find out.
kess,,, I love your connections they all made me laugh. I think that your connections are all extremely interesting and are good things to notice when reading the novel, I actually want to go back and reread a few chapters to see if I can pick up on anything else. Although I also don't really like Monseigneur, I think he is important as a character because Dickens, as you explained, has created him as a character and an allegory. I question why he is representing the whole aristocracy by only one character though...maybe it is symbolic that he is a greedy man...? anyways you're brillianttt and i loved your connections
Briana, you came up with really good questions! I really like the question about the judgmental society and agree with you that the way people dress and act show this kind of society in the novel, especially seen in the character Monseigneur. In this time period the upper class definitely acted superior towards the lower class since they had more money and food. The way Monseigneur acts by saying it was better for the poor little boy to die than to live, shows the cruel side of him as well as society at this time.
I can't even put into words how entertaining it is to read Kess' comments to be honest. The side notes... like you're the best. Anyway, the whole connection to Doctor Manette got me thinking. Since the beginning of the story, I feel like Mr. Lorry has been making up that the Doc is kind of a really bad guy... like I'm not exactly sure what it is and how he makes me feel that way but I felt like Doctor Manette was some terrible man who committed terrible crimes and could never be reunited with his daughter in a peaceful manner, and I mean that was obviously quite wrong. So I completely agree that the Doc seems to be a bit more shadier than we have been told so far... and why is it that Lucie is the only one that is able to calm him? Maybe in the way that Lucie reminds him of his wife, we can infer that his wife used to be the person that would calm him down before and that's why Lucie is able to do so now. But then why would his wife have hidden the existence of a father from Lucie? Like what could have been so bad that she had been ashamed to let the idea kind of live on..
Holy questions. I see you take your job very seriously. I’m just gonna comment on some of your questions, because I’m attempting to take my job very seriously.
- For your first question, I would just like to say how Dickens probably uses this imagery to really exemplify the problems of the time. THIS IS THE FRENCH REV. People are living in really crappy conditions and I like how Dickens uses this imagery to really show us just how bad things were.
- For your fifth question: would you change the situation of your society if you were living like a queen? Would you change your society if you had four people serving you chocolate? The Monseigneur is living to lavishly and is caught in his own ego to change anything. He likes where he’s at. Too lazy to do anything.
- For your eighth question, I would like to make a connection to Macbeth! PLEASE! Contain your excitement. I know you’re pumped to hear this. Anyway, in one of the scenes (I don’t remember) we see the murder of one of Macduff’s sons onstage. This is one of the only onstage murders, and the reader is supposed to be really pissed at him. How did you feel about him after reading that? Were you mad at him? We are supposed to get similar feels towards the Monseigneur after reading this part.
- For your question about Charles Darnay: I like what you had to say, and I really liked this part! I loved his heartfelt confession and I thought it was fantastic. It was so great. I think M. Manette gave him permission because...who wouldn’t? He reminds me of the typical father: unwilling to give his little girl up to another man. Is your dad like that?
@kess I think that your description of mrs. Pross is really funny LOOOL. I think that it’s also interesting that you said she it like a motherly figure cause it’s something I didn’t notice. I think that it’s important that Lucie had Mrs. Pross because she didn’t have a father for a very long time. She’s pretty boss
Kess! I love that you chose to focus on Miss Pross! I love her character, because she's presented as this tough, fiery woman, but she is so sweet and protective of Lucie, and she represents a steady prescence in Lucie's life, because she was with her before she knew her father, and she stayed with her after shw brought Dr. Manette home. I think Miss Pross's relationship with Lucie is sweet and familial, and I think Miss Pross is a minor character that yet is a pivotal role in the story of the Manettes.
16 comments:
Language Lover
Book II, Chapters 6-10
Dicken’s diction (hey, Rachel… alliteration!) within A Tale of Two Cities brings the novel to life in a phenomenal way. One of the things which sets his writing apart from other authors is the unique way in which he choses fantastic, imaginative words to describe everyday things, which brings novel vivacity to his scenes.
In Chapter 8 – Monseigneur in the Country – on page 117 of my copy of text, the Barnes & Nobles Classics edition, Dickens describes the Marquis’ carraige taking off. He writes, “Gradually, it subsided to a foot pace, swinging and lumbering upward among the many sweet scents of a summer night. The postilions, with a thousand gossamer gnats circling about them in lieu of the Furies, quietly mended the points to the lashes of their whips.” Gossamer is an adjective meaning sheer, very light, like cobwebs. The use of gossamer to describe the gnats evokes a better sense of their prevalence and density in the area, and this coupled with the comparison of the gnats to Furies, female deities of vengeance from Greek mythos that would stalk a person until they received proper punishment for an ill doing, brings further superiority to his style.
In Chapter 7 – Monseigneur in Town &ndash on page 107 of my text, Dickens wrote, “It was impossible for Monseigneur to dispense with one of these attendants on the chocolate and hold his high place under the admiring Havens. Deep would have been the blot upon his escutcheon if his chocolate had been ignobly waited on by only three men.” An escutcheon is a family’s coat of arms, and the full idiom “a blot upon his escutcheon” would be something that damages an individual’s and a family’s post in society. Personally, I love the use of these terms that suggest nobility and add some sass all at once.
What do you think? Thanks for reading, and blog on!
Literary Luminary
Book II Chapters 6-11
As the literary luminary, I was able to look deeper in the text and find some paragraphs that I thought had significance to the novel and the possible future in the novel. Please keep in mind that when I reference a page and paragraph, it is in the library copy.
The first passage that I found was on page 98 paragraph 7. My reason for choosing this passage was I saw the concept of duality. Duality was present when they described the dark and stormy night then mentioned the white curtains being blown around by the winds. The white against the dark shows how the dark seemed to be able to influence the white so significantly. Also in this scene Darnay is sitting beside Lucie which shows duality. The reason I saw this as duality is that Darnay is supposed to be this corrupt figure who has a bad past and yet he is sitting beside this innocent lady who is fragile. However, I find it absolutely adorable that Darnay likes Lucie. You know what they say, opposites attract!
The other passage that I chose was on page 108 paragraph 1. This passage took place after Defarge had been given coins to do work for the Marquis. Then someone had thrown coins into his carriage and he never figured out who did it. I believe it to be Defarge since he had been given coins, so he would have a coin to throw. The fact that we don’t know if it was him makes it more mysterious. Also, it says that where Monsieur had stood previously a stout woman knitting was standing there. Could this possibly be Madame Defarge? The first time we saw her in the novel she was described as a stout woman who knit. She was also a mysterious figure like her husband. If this was her, this just makes the couple even more mysterious. This whole scene seemed sketchy to me.
First off, I would like to talk about how awesome Miss Pross is. This woman works it. She honestly reminds me of a typical mother. She’s super critical of other people but it’s in a comical way that you don’t take seriously but at the same time you’re scared to laugh or even think it is funny, which Mr. Lorry definitely portrays through his responses to her. The fact she’s described as “the wild red woman” shows she has the fiery personality that’s represented by her red hair. Yet she is also described as “strong of hand” which links to the motherly personality. And she definitely suits the role as Lucie’s figurative mother. She calls Lucie ‘Ladybird’ (I looked that up and it means ladybug, so I don’t know if there is any symbolic meaning behind that or not, if you can think of something, share it). So she not only gives her a pet name, but also acts extremely protective over her: “But it really is doubly and trebly hard to have crowds and multitudes of people turning up…to take Ladybird’s affections away from me.” She gets very jealous and doubtful of others who seek out Lucie, which definitely shows her motherly characteristics. I love her.
Side note: I like how she is introduced almost as if you should know who she is already. It straight up just reads: “It proceeded from Miss Pross” like you have already seen her in the text earlier and know her as a character. I don’t know, I thought that was pretty interesting.
Okay now moving on to Lucie. We see Lucie as a pretty stable character. She has no changes within herself so far in this text and I have a feeling she won’t change, depending on Dickens’ themes for the novel to come. My concept is that Lucie is meant to symbolize hope. Now I have several text references to back this up and I would really like to hear what other people think about this. In Chapter 6, pg 95 of the Barnes & Noble version of the text, Mr. Lorry is entering the Manette’s home and he describes it as very simple, yet because of Lucie’s decorations, it comes off as very pleasant and delightful. And I think the quote, “She appeared to have innately derived from it that ability to make much of little means” really drives her representation of hope. This is a time of distress and heartache for most, yet Lucie is still bubbly and this wonderful girl we find some sort of comfort in…kind of like hope…am I right? I mean, even if we are hopeless, we still hold on to hope. If that makes sense. The example in the text of Lucie acting as hope is with her very own father. Page 100 discusses how Doc Manette sleepwalks (like Lady Macbeth…we’ll discuss that later) and the only one to bring him out of these trances is Lucie: “In silence they go walking up and down together…till her love and company have brought him to himself.” And in connection, she was the only thing that “recalled him to life”. Hope does the same thing for humans. It gives them reason and purpose and joy even when things aren’t so joyful.
Another side note: This would explain why everyone wants her “affections”. Everyone wants hope in their lives. Everyone seeks out for hope and love and comfort.
Just want to point out, page 101, “Mr. Darnay presented himself while they were sitting under the plane-tree, but he was only One.” Miss Pross is talking about how thousands and thousands of people show up for Lucie but only Mr. Darnay actually comes and the fact that he is referred to as “One”….umm…more like…”The One”. Just saying. I totally “Awh-ed” when I came to that.
My firm belief is there is usually an ‘audience character’ in a book. What I mean by that, is there is usually a character who is more like a wallflower in the whole plot, just like the reader who is absorbing everything that is going on. I believe Mr. Lorry is this character. For several reasons but mainly what it says on page 103 it reads: “He recovered himself so quickly, however, that Mr. Lorry had doubts of his business eyes.” The fact that only Mr. Lorry is said to feel this way and no one else is mentioned, foreshadows something in the text I think. This is definitely more meant for the reader to go “Huh…Mr. Lorry is right. What’s up with that?” which I think can signify Mr. Lorry’s importance to the audience of this book. I don’t know, this is just a theory going on in my mind.
Interesting thing about Doc Manette. At certain times of the text throughout Chapters 6-11, he is seen as getting a lot better and happier as a character, yet there are several accounts of him showing bad signs still. Like the sleepwalking. There’s a huge mystery behind that. Now one can just argue it’s his past that’s keeping him up, almost like Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. But if we connect the whole sleepwalking to Lady Macbeth, I think that opens up a whole different thing. What if there is something Doc did that is more serious than we think? Sleepwalking was associated with guilt in terms of Lady Macbeth, which makes a lot of sense. Sleep is a time of peace and rest and usually when one can’t fall asleep or when sleep is disturbed it is because of bad thoughts or guilt. So…what’s up Doc?
Side note: That was extremely cheesy. I apologize.
Okay. I gotta talk about this jerk. I don’t want to. But I have to cause I’m Character Captain and he is a new character even though he is a butthole. Monsieur the Marquis. The loveliest man alive. So basically Monsieur the Marquis isn’t really a character. I mean, he is, but he isn’t. His whole purpose in this text is to represent the snobby upper class at this time who literally did not care about anyone else but themselves. The fact that for a decent amount of pages he wasn’t even given an actual name, he was just called “Monseigneur” shows he isn’t really significant as a character besides his personality.
Side note: I don’t need to quote any passages to support the fact that he is a jerk. If you read, you already know.
Wow I write a lot. Okay I forgot to say I'm the Character Captain. Whoops.
Discussion Director:
Q: Why do you think Dickens uses so much imagery (ex. when he describes setting) to describe the times and people in those times?
A: Dickens tends to use setting and weather to describe the times to most likely set the mood that the people living in this time are feeling. For example, when it is cloudy, dark, raining, etc., people tend to be going through tough times. When it is sunny and bright outside, something good is either happening or about to happen.
Q: Why do you think people of this time chose to “put on a new personality” or chose to live vicariously through others? (ex. Miss Pross)
A. Readers can infer that people tend to put on a “mask” or clothing that portrays a character not like their true self so that they don’t have to show the person who is really behind the “mask” or the outfit. They can also assume that the character may have something to hide if they are in disguise. As for “living vicariously through others” or maybe acting as a guide, people might just be looking out for other people that they care about. An example of this would be Miss Pross taking care of Lucie Manette.
Q: Since Miss Pross is compared to Cinderella’s Godmother, how do you think this foreshadows her future?
A: Seeing as she’s been taking care of Lucie Manette for most of her life, Miss Pross maybe be able to help her through some tough situations in the future. I think she may be there for something possibly involving Charles Darnay.
Q: What do you think the significance of the echo in the corner is? (pg 99)
A: The echoes could represent multiple things. However, I think the echoes could represent past actions that seem to stick with the characters. Echoes never really tend to just go away but they only fade.
Q: Why do you think people (like Monseigneur) with authority chose not to help drastically change the times?
A: I think Monseigneur will be one of the characters that we see in the novel that will show more of the corrupt side of society than anything else. Because he doesn’t have consideration for anyone else but himself, I think he chooses not to help people because it doesn’t affect him.
Q: Do you think the way people dressed was a sign of a judgmental society? If so, why do you think everyone was so judgmental in this time?
A: In my opinion, I do happen to think that society during this time period was very judgmental and that was mostly done probably by the upper classes. I think that because the upper class was judgmental about everything from clothes to money, people chose to hide who they really were. This problem also contributes to the reason why people dressed different than who they really were.
Q: What could be another meaning behind, “It is better for the poor little plaything to die so, than to live?”
A: When Monseigneur said this, I thought it had a meaning behind it that, in a way, could’ve represented the time period. Because these times were really tough for mostly everybody in France, everyone always felt down. Monseigneur, in the most arrogant way possible, probably meant that it is better for the boy to be in peace than to live with struggle.
Q: What does the death of the innocent boy show about Monseigneur?
A: in my opinion, I think he is very rude and self-centered. The fact that he killed an innocent child shows that he has no consideration and care for others. This may come back to him if he keeps doing ridiculous acts like this.
Q: What is the significance of dirty bodies in the novel so far?
A: Once again, I think the dirty bodies and clothes have the significance of the effects of a corrupt society on the lower class, especially during this time period. The dirt on their bodies would represent the struggle that they have to go through to make it by in society.
Q: Why do you think the quote, “…so many die of want; so many more will die of want,” is so important in the novel?
A: This quote is definitely the right quote to describe the mindset of people during this age, and even now. In the novel, it shows two things: The wants being the needs of the lower class, and the greedy wants of the upper class. The lower class will die of wanting change and reform, and the upper class will die of greedy wants for luxuries.
Q: Do you think Mr. Darnay is being realistic for trying to prosper in his social class, or does thinking he can prosper make him unrealistic?
A: I think him wanting to prosper and him actually prospering are two separate concepts. The fact that he thinks he can prosper in the lower class may be unrealistic only people nobody in society, except for the upper class, is prospering at that time. However, if he actually is prospering for a man in the lower class, than it is realistic of him for thinking reform may come.
Q: Do you think Dr. Manette gave Charles Darnay permission to be with Lucie because he sees a little of himself in Charles, or because he wants Lucie to be happy?
A: I think Dr. Manette gave Mr. Darnay permission to be with Lucie for both reasons. When Charles mentions Dr. Manette’s past loves as a reference for his case to him, he immediately feels emotional. However, when Charles mentions his potential love for Lucie, Dr. Manette decides that he approves because Lucie may love him too.
Q: How do you think Mr. Carton’s drinking problem will cause issues in the future?
A: I think Mr. Carton’s drinking problem could cause multiple issues in the future. It may make him spill information he was supposed to keep a secret, or maybe he will admit his love for Lucie in front of Charles when is too drunk to realize.
Q: Do you really think Mr. Stryver has a right to confront Mr. Carton about his liking for Lucie?
A: In my opinion, I don’t think Mr. Stryver had any right to confront Mr. Carton about his possible love for Lucie. If you think about it, what does his “crush” have anything to do with Mr. Stryver? It’s a little suspicious how much he wants him to marry.
Q: What other reasons could explain why Mr. Stryver wants Mr. Carton to marry so badly, other than the reasons that he explained?
A: I thought about a few different explanations to this problem. One of them could be that maybe he wants to set him up with someone that fits into a plan he may have in the future. Also, maybe he wants to see Lucie and Mr. Darnay apart for some reason.
@ Kess
OMG Kess, let me just start off by telling you that I always LOVE what you have to say about the novel! Anyway, I liked the thoughts you expressed about Lucie. How she represents hope is very prevalent in A Tale of Two Cities. In every detail we get about Lucie she encompasses compassion, love, and goodness. But I am curious as to if maybe Dickens purposely made us feel this way about Lucie. I want to love her as a character but I can’t help but wonder if Lucie is portraying a false fascase. Who knows! It’s just something to think about.
Oh! I also wanted to tell you that I loved the passage you pointed out on page 101 when Mr. Darnay appears and Lucie thinks of him as “the one.” (I awh-ed” at that part too). It made me think of Gone With the Wind. Scarlett, this beautiful southern belle is in love with a man named Ashley and although she has tons of men fawning over her all she wants is Ashley. Anyhow, I made a connection to that.
Lastly, I just wanted to let you know that I agree with you on the whole Monseigneur being a jerk thing. He’s an idiot. If you read my connections that I posted I connected him to the prince in Beauty and the Beast (before he falls in love with Belle). Maybe Monseigneur isn’t as bad as he’s portrayed… or maybe he’s just a jerk! But anyway, really good job with your character analysis.
AHH Kess I loved reading your thoughts on the novel and the cheesy joke! I thought it was interesting how you said you always find an 'audience character'. I'm going to look for those when I read now! I was the character captain this week and I analyzed Monseigneur the Marquis too. He is BEYOND annoying! I completely agree that he is a snobby upper class jerk with no significance to the novel except for his personality. He bothered me so much...
Kess-
I agree with what you said about Doctor Manette, with regards to doing something more serious. I think he was imprisoned because he was towards the upper class, but not quite there yet. We know he was a partner of Mr. Lorry's,and that would definitely suggest some sort of richness. Possibly when he was being captured, he could have killed one of his captors and is still living with that. We may never find out.
kess,,, I love your connections they all made me laugh. I think that your connections are all extremely interesting and are good things to notice when reading the novel, I actually want to go back and reread a few chapters to see if I can pick up on anything else. Although I also don't really like Monseigneur, I think he is important as a character because Dickens, as you explained, has created him as a character and an allegory. I question why he is representing the whole aristocracy by only one character though...maybe it is symbolic that he is a greedy man...? anyways you're brillianttt and i loved your connections
Briana, you came up with really good questions! I really like the question about the judgmental society and agree with you that the way people dress and act show this kind of society in the novel, especially seen in the character Monseigneur. In this time period the upper class definitely acted superior towards the lower class since they had more money and food. The way Monseigneur acts by saying it was better for the poor little boy to die than to live, shows the cruel side of him as well as society at this time.
I can't even put into words how entertaining it is to read Kess' comments to be honest. The side notes... like you're the best. Anyway, the whole connection to Doctor Manette got me thinking. Since the beginning of the story, I feel like Mr. Lorry has been making up that the Doc is kind of a really bad guy... like I'm not exactly sure what it is and how he makes me feel that way but I felt like Doctor Manette was some terrible man who committed terrible crimes and could never be reunited with his daughter in a peaceful manner, and I mean that was obviously quite wrong. So I completely agree that the Doc seems to be a bit more shadier than we have been told so far... and why is it that Lucie is the only one that is able to calm him? Maybe in the way that Lucie reminds him of his wife, we can infer that his wife used to be the person that would calm him down before and that's why Lucie is able to do so now. But then why would his wife have hidden the existence of a father from Lucie? Like what could have been so bad that she had been ashamed to let the idea kind of live on..
@Briana
Holy questions. I see you take your job very seriously. I’m just gonna comment on some of your questions, because I’m attempting to take my job very seriously.
- For your first question, I would just like to say how Dickens probably uses this imagery to really exemplify the problems of the time. THIS IS THE FRENCH REV. People are living in really crappy conditions and I like how Dickens uses this imagery to really show us just how bad things were.
- For your fifth question: would you change the situation of your society if you were living like a queen? Would you change your society if you had four people serving you chocolate? The Monseigneur is living to lavishly and is caught in his own ego to change anything. He likes where he’s at. Too lazy to do anything.
- For your eighth question, I would like to make a connection to Macbeth! PLEASE! Contain your excitement. I know you’re pumped to hear this. Anyway, in one of the scenes (I don’t remember) we see the murder of one of Macduff’s sons onstage. This is one of the only onstage murders, and the reader is supposed to be really pissed at him. How did you feel about him after reading that? Were you mad at him? We are supposed to get similar feels towards the Monseigneur after reading this part.
- For your question about Charles Darnay: I like what you had to say, and I really liked this part! I loved his heartfelt confession and I thought it was fantastic. It was so great. I think M. Manette gave him permission because...who wouldn’t? He reminds me of the typical father: unwilling to give his little girl up to another man. Is your dad like that?
Peace
@kess
I think that your description of mrs. Pross is really funny LOOOL. I think that it’s also interesting that you said she it like a motherly figure cause it’s something I didn’t notice. I think that it’s important that Lucie had Mrs. Pross because she didn’t have a father for a very long time. She’s pretty boss
Kess! I love that you chose to focus on Miss Pross! I love her character, because she's presented as this tough, fiery woman, but she is so sweet and protective of Lucie, and she represents a steady prescence in Lucie's life, because she was with her before she knew her father, and she stayed with her after shw brought Dr. Manette home. I think Miss Pross's relationship with Lucie is sweet and familial, and I think Miss Pross is a minor character that yet is a pivotal role in the story of the Manettes.
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